So, any disadvantages to this?

"YSI-what can brown do for you" (ysi-what-can-brown-do-for-you) 02/10/2014 at 00:18 • Filed to: None

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I have found out that, a there are a couple gas stations around town that sell E85. Obviously, I can't run it unless I decide to get a tune(which I will cause it is fairly "cheap"). So, what are the downsides to running this besides lower gas mileage(although it is cheaper so it should come out to be the same). You get more power which is awesome, but I have heard that it likes to gunk up the exhaust valves and thus will require you to clean them off sooner than you normally would, but I don't know if that is true.

GeorgeyBoy > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:20

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I wouldn't touch it.

Joe_Limon > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:20

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You will also need to upgrade your fuel delivery system e85 eats away at any rubber hoses/etc that it comes in contact with.

Dsscats > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:22

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Don't do it. Not worth only having one station available. And there are a huge amounts of downsides.

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:23

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E85 is common for cars in Brazil. There was a time manufacturers sold ethanol-only cars. my grandfather's old blue Monza (rebadged Ascona) is one of them.

It burns quicker than gas, but it's "cheaper".

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Joe_Limon 02/10/2014 at 00:23

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This.

There is no such thing as an E85 tune if your car wasn't set up to run E85 from the factory.

Arben72 > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:23

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Depends, it's like running 110 octane with better cooling. But your motor and fueling system has to be tuned and prepared for it.

TyFc3s-A car hating millennial > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:27

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the gunking is true.. but treat it like a methanol race car, when you decide to store it for a long period, run gasoline through the system briefly (let it idle for a minute)

other than that, its hard to get (around me) and it smells weird.. but it kinda is a wonder fuel, it works kinda like pure race fuel, but you can buy it at the pumps

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:29

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Only do this if you already have a flexfuel vehicle or a building a purpose built race engine or something that will only run on e85.

6cyl > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:30

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one does not simply

clean exhaust valves

.

Why would you want to run your car on something that gunk's up the motor.... And reduces fuel economy.... And a tune/e85 conversion may void your warranty.... And have fewer places to refuel.... All this just for small power gains?

YSI-what can brown do for you > Joe_Limon 02/10/2014 at 00:31

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I see, I did not consider this. I personally don't want to blow anything up in the car, so eating away at the lines doesn't sound like a good idea.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/10/2014 at 00:32

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Well I mean you can tune it and adjust timing, ignition, and stuff for E85, but everything else remains stock(obviously).

Joe_Limon > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:33

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Yeah, its a simple fix for the factory to do, but a pain/easy to overlook for the average joe tinkerer.

YSI-what can brown do for you > 6cyl 02/10/2014 at 00:34

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But it is like 10hp though!!! But seriously, I thought it would be fun once in a while, like for a track day or something. I wouldn't want to run it everyday.

YSI-what can brown do for you > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK 02/10/2014 at 00:35

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I like to imagine that my car is a race car. . . although it isn't.

Ryan1981 > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:35

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You need to know if your injectors can spray the required amount of fuel. If not, you'll have to upgrade. Also, make sure you get the E85 from the same place. E85 isn't consistent across the board. BP's E85 will have a different ethanol content than say, Shell's or whatever, and that will affect your tune.
It won't gum up your engine. Since E85 has very good cleaning properties as well as leaving behind a rest-product of water, it is cleaning the fuel system and it will keep the injectors nice and clean. The combustion chambers, valves, ports and the exhaust will also be clean(er), almost like the car had water injection.

Since E85 is hygroscopic, it absorbs water faster than gas. So if you drive the car sparingly, expect water in your fuel.

D > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:36

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I know a guy who runs his Evo X on E85... it spits fire

YSI-what can brown do for you > Arben72 02/10/2014 at 00:37

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Well people use the stock fuel lines and such to use E85, usually tuning the car to be able to run is all they do. So far no one has had problems but it hasn't been long enough to know the long term effects on this car.

6cyl > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:37

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So this is what you want.

This is a viable option and can be done in a reasonable manner despite what every fast and furious moron that blew up a motor would have you believe.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Dsscats 02/10/2014 at 00:37

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Well, it isn't too far away but if I am on the highway, yeah I am screwed.

YSI-what can brown do for you > 6cyl 02/10/2014 at 00:39

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For a track car? I guess you could do it, but you can't do it for more than a few seconds at a time. This is a whopping 10whp all the time!! Be amazed at the power!!

YSI-what can brown do for you > D 02/10/2014 at 00:39

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I imagine that looks like the sex.

6cyl > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:44

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Cams, valves, stroke the motor if possible, increase compression

...or boost

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:44

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Your whole fuel system will need to be replaced.

YSI-what can brown do for you > 6cyl 02/10/2014 at 00:46

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Boost is expensive though. A kit is 5 grand, before getting a tuner to tune your engine getting wider wheels and tires, and finshing off the rest of the exhaust. Total will be around 9 grand for a turbo :'(

Not much in the way of engine mods. There are cams in the making. . . maybe. But everything else is missing.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/10/2014 at 00:47

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To run E85?

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:48

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Yup.

http://www.motorweek.org/features/goss_…

6cyl > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 00:53

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You can get stock cams reground, get an extra set of heads and go to town porting and polishing, you already have headers, there are cheap itb's available for the WRX so you could find out if they have the same bolt pattern as your motor... if not you could probably have a local machine shop make adapters

I am sure there are more options than people have come up with as it is still a new motor and even 30 year old motors people are still finding new tricks. Some guy in South Africa or Australia or something is building a roller cam set up for the BMW m20 for the first time.

HammerheadFistpunch > Joe_Limon 02/10/2014 at 00:54

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Yup, the downsides are it will ruin your entire fuel system unless your car is e85 (flex fuel) rated, which yours isnt.

Ryan1981 > 6cyl 02/10/2014 at 00:54

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If memory serves me correctly, the rule of thumb is 20hp per cylinder on a stock engine is safe. (For a wet kit, anyway). Viable option indeed.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/10/2014 at 01:00

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That is strange. People run E85 on this car no problem . Now, I am just talking about running it, not maintaining the car or causing problems in the valves or injectors and stuff. Some people run it on a completely stock car as well . I knew older cars couldn't run E85 as simply as my car, but I though anything past 2005 could basically do it.

YSI-what can brown do for you > 6cyl 02/10/2014 at 01:03

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This is starting to sound expensive. The reason I was considering E85 is because you can tune the car to run on it as well as 93 octane when you want. This is only 500 bucks as well! Considering people gain 35hp on stock cars with E85, it is not a bad idea, but if there are just to many problems with this, it is best to hold off.

I wouldn't do itbs just cause they are hard to make them run on a DD. However heads and cams wouldn't be a bad idea. Although, I feel like that would be expensive. A mild cam, would be fantastic though! I was also thinking about doing a final drive a few years down. Make it feel like it has 30 extra horses!

6cyl > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 01:09

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Nitrous is not a terrible option if you are looking for power on demand and on a budget. If done responsibly it is not any harder on the motor that any other form of increasing power. You can set the charge as low as you want if you want to make it last longer. Think of it as KERS that can only be recharged in the pits.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Joe_Limon 02/10/2014 at 01:10

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I wasn't planning on running it everyday. You can switch between 93 octane or E85 on the fly if you so please. Obviously you have to do he precautionary stuff before fully going over to one or the other, but it isn't too hard. I know that it is a real pain on cold starts, so for a DD it isn't great for everyday use.

YSI-what can brown do for you > 6cyl 02/10/2014 at 01:14

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It does have the stigma of the fast and furious kids though. Although, they would find it more useful to spend their money on wings.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 01:34

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Probably the same reason E15 is lethal to bikes - goodbye, fuel system.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 02/10/2014 at 01:36

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I have kind of heard about fuel system problems. Although, do you think running it once in a while would be a big deal. You can switch between maps pretty easily(like 10 minutes) and then just switch which fuel you are using. Obviously when switching between fuels there is a certain way to do it.

Buick Mackane > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 01:43

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I guess you do not know much about cars, you cannot run E85 fuel unless your car was designed to run on it.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Buick Mackane 02/10/2014 at 01:43

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Amazing how people do it on a stock car then right, with a tune. . .

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthr…

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 01:46

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It's not as simple as switching maps. Guess what's going to be affected. Fuel pump, the rubber lines, the whole nine yards.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 02/10/2014 at 01:53

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Even with a small amount of use? That is ridiculous.

And running E85 on an FRS is as simple as going to a tuner and asking for some help, which is why I was asking if it is a good idea.

iDriveCode3 > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 02:56

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Screw all the naysayers, this is the nectar of the gods! If you run a forced induction car, it's worth the fuel system upgrades. There has been significant time and testing done on E85 cars. The consensus amongst Evo owners was fuel injector fouling seemed to be from a few isolated bad stations/batches. Fuel lines remain intact, no deterioration.

I run it in my car. I have two stations nearby, not much, but it's not a DD car. I keep a five gallon can nearby, just in case I screw something up.

Do it, do it, do it. Free power. Like the first hit of crack cocaine.

OtherBarry > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 07:48

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Only in a racecar or E85 vehicle only. Others have touched on corrosion issues. But E85 also absorbs water out of the air and if you don't drive often, this can lead to trying to run you engine on water. That doesn't work well...

Joe_Limon > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 08:39

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So why not simply chip the vehicle and forget about fuel economy/emissions for track day? To really get the most out of any high octane fuel you are gonna need some way to bump up the compression ratio. Since really all high octane does is raise the ignition pressure/temperature of thr fuel.

6cyl > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 09:06

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It has that reputation now but if you look into it a little deeper you will find it is more of an old hot rod trick. They have been using it for ages. If you want a race car for the road those are they guys to talk to. They have tons of cool tricks and old time wisdom. Here is another one: if you want to check the weight of your car and play with moving things around to get it just the way you want it take it to a shipping company and toss someone $20 to use their vehicle scale. It is kind of obvious I suppose but I certainly never would have thought of it.

Sinanigans > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 10:16

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WOW, lots of naysayers here. Subaru guys (and Evo guys I believe) have been running corn juice for years with no documented problems. Now, if you get a shitty batch of cornjuice, then that could cause issues- same as it would if you got bad gas. Here's what you need to know:

1) if you run E85, you need a tune. Some tuners actually have a FlexFuel option which automatically adjusts the tune to the actual amount of ethanol you've got running. Switching to an ethanol map can take seconds (for example the ECUTEK for the BRZ/FRS takes flipping a switch to toggle between maps). Other tuners require you to fill up with ethanol when your gas tank (filled with gasoline) is almost empty. Running cornjuice in the winter may also lead to making your car more difficult to start in the winter- but I believe some tuners found ways around this.

2) depending on your needs, you may need to add an extra fuel pump, rail, and injectors. The Toyburion twins, for example, don't need any extra fuel system mods if the car is kept NA. For bigger power gains and expectations (say an STI running a bigger turbo), you're going to need the fuel system upgrades because you burn through much more ethanol than you do gas. So you need a pump, injectors, regulator, rails, lines etc. that can accommodate.

3) Its not recommended to let the car sit with ethanol without be driven for a while (weeks). Ethanol absorbs water, and THAT could be corrosive over a span of time. Also, some tuners recommend switching between gas and ethanol every now and then. Newer cars are much more resistant to corrosion, and can handle it. The same can't be said of older cars with older fuel systems.

4) Price: Ethanol is cheaper than gas. BUT you will typically see 20-30% reduction in MPG's, yet ethanol is not typically 20-30% cheaper than gasoline (which means you spend more in the end). Now the price depends on the location- as some parts of the country have cheaper ethanol than others (think cornbelt)

5) Why ethanol? Well, ethanol has a higher octane rating. And a engine tuned to run on higher octane ratings will make more power than it would on lower octane. Secondly, ethanol has a cooling effect which also contributes to the power gain. This is augmented with turbo and supercharged cars. NA cars still benefits from E85, but not as much as FI cars. You can even make the case that its cleaner to burn than gasoline, if you're into that sort of thing...

I'm not gonna tell you that you should or should not convert to E85. That all depends on your application, needs, and expectations. If you've got a newer car (say, less than 10 years old) then its safer to run. You're gonna need a tune either way. Expect a lower range from your tank. You can make more power, and your engine can run a little cooler. Expect to pay more through due to lower efficiency.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > YSI-what can brown do for you 02/10/2014 at 13:03

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It's not just limited to an FR-S, and no, it's not simple. Unless you are driving a car (Chevrolets) that is E85 friendly, you are going to go through some nasty repairs with E85.